Episode 17
The rise of the Zeppelin and the Airship Roma disaster
🎙
The airship Roma and the Hindenburg have a very common and tragic history. America learned from the Roma crash and turned away from hydrogen-filled airships...and Hindenburg learned the same lesson 15 years later.
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Transcript
[Music]
Speaker:greetings and welcome to the talk with
Speaker:History Podcast I'm your host Scott here
Speaker:with my wife and historian Jen hello on
Speaker:this podcast we talk about history's
Speaker:continuing impact on us and our personal
Speaker:journey through YouTube as we continue
Speaker:to explore record and share our history
Speaker:walks with you
Speaker:now I'm going to guess that you the
Speaker:listener have probably seen Indiana
Speaker:Jones in the Last Crusade and if you
Speaker:haven't don't worry no spoilers here
Speaker:today
Speaker:but for those who have you probably
Speaker:remember that in the movie there's a
Speaker:classic scene where Indiana and his
Speaker:father board A zeppelin that's flying
Speaker:out of Germany as they try to escape the
Speaker:Nazis but
Speaker:did you know that America had actually
Speaker:hoped for something similar but never
Speaker:quite got there
Speaker:for some all too real reasons that we're
Speaker:going to talk about in today's podcast
Speaker:so Jen what are we talking about today
Speaker:[Music]
Speaker:today we're going to talk about the
Speaker:Airship disaster Roma okay so the Roma
Speaker:was an Airship that America purchased
Speaker:from Italy it was built in Italy
Speaker:and it took a maiden voyage I think the
Speaker:American ambassador took that maiden
Speaker:voyage to kind of test it out before it
Speaker:was purchased now Airship is basically
Speaker:kind of like a zeppelin just a little
Speaker:different we talk about this in the
Speaker:video yeah so we'll we can we can talk
Speaker:about that after I give a little okay um
Speaker:yeah so the Airship Roma so the Airship
Speaker:Roma
Speaker:it was purchased by America from Italy
Speaker:it's White's name Roma because it was
Speaker:built in Rome sure and the American
Speaker:ambassador took the maiden voyage trip
Speaker:with it from Rome to Naples back to Rome
Speaker:and everything seemed great good old you
Speaker:know testing was done and they said yeah
Speaker:we'll buy it and they spent a good
Speaker:amount on it I think what did we talk
Speaker:about in the
Speaker:I think by today's standards would be
Speaker:like two million dollars yes like it was
Speaker:it wasn't inflation stuff like that it
Speaker:was a hefty sum yeah and um
Speaker:but what happened was instead of flying
Speaker:it so they had purchased this Airship
Speaker:and we'll talk about the different types
Speaker:for transatlantic travel so back and
Speaker:forth across the island at the time yes
Speaker:it was the largest that the Americans
Speaker:had ever owned it was the largest and it
Speaker:could be good for that type of travel it
Speaker:was like a mile a minute and it could do
Speaker:something like that relatively safe fly
Speaker:up above the weather you'd be relatively
Speaker:safe
Speaker:but instead of flying it to America
Speaker:after purchasing they pack it up they
Speaker:take it apart they pack it up and then
Speaker:when it finally gets to America and they
Speaker:unpack it because it's taken across on a
Speaker:ship so of course not quickly
Speaker:the skin has mildewed and deteriorated
Speaker:and the engines never quite run right so
Speaker:they actually replace the engines and
Speaker:they don't even have it for very long so
Speaker:it's purchased in November of 1921 it
Speaker:actually crashes in February of 1922. oh
Speaker:my gosh so like a matter of four months
Speaker:it's in operation and even in those four
Speaker:months they had to replace the engines
Speaker:things were just going wrong with it and
Speaker:it and it was actually like a pretty
Speaker:decent deal like when I made this video
Speaker:I actually found old video clips of the
Speaker:Roma you know so so it was a big deal
Speaker:back then to get this over here this was
Speaker:a a big deal in aviation because we have
Speaker:both been to Bases where you see durable
Speaker:hangers and for militaries to build
Speaker:these huge durgeable hangers no you know
Speaker:that they put a lot of effort and money
Speaker:into this program yeah and that's why I
Speaker:think they try so hard to get it to
Speaker:survive but it just it's disaster after
Speaker:disaster so in the Aromas
Speaker:case
Speaker:it was filled with hydrogen yep just
Speaker:like the Hindenburg
Speaker:but uh and then well as I'll talk about
Speaker:the disaster that happens but the major
Speaker:change that happens with the Roma is
Speaker:that's when America changes its air from
Speaker:hydrogen to helium and you said that's
Speaker:largely because hydrogen's obviously
Speaker:flammable hydrogen's flammable but the
Speaker:big reason why they use it is because
Speaker:it's it's cheap cheap and you can find
Speaker:it pretty easily where helium is
Speaker:expensive and rare and I know we
Speaker:probably like and that's not rare you
Speaker:can go get balloons filled up but it's
Speaker:it's compared to hydrogen right it's
Speaker:rare and so it would just be easier to
Speaker:use it and I guess people just figured
Speaker:oh it won't light because we won't keep
Speaker:any Flames bite or anything hot by it
Speaker:but in every instance it usually it's
Speaker:coming down to the ground and ignites
Speaker:that's what happens in the Hindenburg as
Speaker:well so that's what happens in the Roma
Speaker:yeah it was interesting right you talk
Speaker:about you know us being in the military
Speaker:we've seen dirigible hangers and you
Speaker:know I'm seeing these videos and making
Speaker:you know I'm seeing old videos as I'm
Speaker:making the video for us for YouTube and
Speaker:you know I mean America had really
Speaker:invested and really said like Aviation
Speaker:is important this is the next step and
Speaker:we're going to do a lot towards it and a
Speaker:fun thing a fun little aside about I
Speaker:always think about this when I think of
Speaker:Zeppelin or dirigible hangers
Speaker:is if anybody's ever seen MythBusters
Speaker:yes the MythBusters out in California in
Speaker:the San Francisco area they used to use
Speaker:the the dirigible hangers at Moffett
Speaker:Fields all the time because it was a
Speaker:giant empty space where there was no
Speaker:wind I think they actually I think one
Speaker:of the things they try to do in one of
Speaker:the the hangers we saw was the lead
Speaker:balloon
Speaker:that one of the episodes they tried to
Speaker:do for MythBusters that they try to get
Speaker:like the thinnest lead kind of material
Speaker:they could to try and Float an actual
Speaker:lead balloon yes I don't remember what
Speaker:the outcome was I don't remember either
Speaker:but they used them often yeah they did a
Speaker:couple different experiments and that
Speaker:just and just thinking about that now as
Speaker:we talk about it like we were all in on
Speaker:Aviation yes I mean they're gigantic
Speaker:hangers when you think of a hanger today
Speaker:and you're like oh a Hanger's big but
Speaker:when you see a durable hanger you know
Speaker:for one aircraft you see a georgeable
Speaker:hanger yeah you know there's no
Speaker:questioning that's a dirtual hair yeah
Speaker:and it's interesting because I'm a Naval
Speaker:aviator and if you know anything about
Speaker:wings Naval aviator wings the dirgeable
Speaker:wings are just one side of the wing oh I
Speaker:don't think I knew that so it's we
Speaker:always would make fun because we never
Speaker:knew anyone who went the dirigible route
Speaker:I think that was very early 40s and 50s
Speaker:when this maybe even the 30s because by
Speaker:38 the program is pretty much squashed
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:so when they came out with that Wing but
Speaker:to come out with its own specific Wing
Speaker:that's cool lets you know how much the
Speaker:military was invested in that yeah yeah
Speaker:no it was just it was just kind of an
Speaker:interesting one the more I kind of dug
Speaker:into it the more I realized like this
Speaker:was this had a ton of national attention
Speaker:it did and honestly so we talk about Von
Speaker:Zeppelin who developed the idea in 1900
Speaker:it it's a very plausible idea right you
Speaker:get high enough you can drop bombs right
Speaker:from a high enough distance and you
Speaker:would be relatively and this is so Von
Speaker:Zeppelin was like the German Chancellor
Speaker:or somebody or other that came with the
Speaker:idea of like dropping bombs from a
Speaker:zeppelin for war get high enough and you
Speaker:can drop bombs and there really isn't
Speaker:anything
Speaker:at the time on the ground that someone
Speaker:could do to stop you right right there
Speaker:wasn't anything they could fire from the
Speaker:ground that that's what what was the
Speaker:remind me when like some of the earliest
Speaker:dirigibles and airships were well that's
Speaker:that's when they were I'd say from 1900
Speaker:to 1938 okay like the early 1900s okay
Speaker:and I thought it was I thought it wasn't
Speaker:even until the 20s no just longer than
Speaker:that it's all low again they're
Speaker:prototypes sure and things like that
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:thank you
Speaker:we would talk about the different types
Speaker:of durgibles so and I and I had I had
Speaker:fun with that yes right in the video if
Speaker:you if you see the video you'll you'll
Speaker:understand what we're talking about
Speaker:but there's there's three different
Speaker:basic types basic types and that it all
Speaker:comes down to frame right so a
Speaker:rigid Zeppelin dirigible has a
Speaker:rigid frame and that's is that what
Speaker:Hindenburg was exactly exactly so when
Speaker:you see the Hindenburg crash and you see
Speaker:the skin basically flame out yeah and
Speaker:you see the frame the frame on fire and
Speaker:then it falls and then it collapses you
Speaker:see the frame you see the square of the
Speaker:frame that is the Zeppelin it's a full
Speaker:framed Airship which means the skin is
Speaker:lying on that frame and then the air is
Speaker:filling up inside yeah and we have that
Speaker:clip in our video so the frame holds the
Speaker:shape
Speaker:now semi-rigid is what the Roma was and
Speaker:that means the Keel or just the bottom
Speaker:is rigid so hard and then you can attach
Speaker:like the where people stay and things
Speaker:like that the coach or whatever can
Speaker:Indiana Jones yeah you could attach that
Speaker:to the to the rigid bottom but the top
Speaker:and the shape is basically different
Speaker:kind of balloons or bladders inside the
Speaker:skin yeah so it's not necessarily like
Speaker:uniform and smooth yes right but it
Speaker:makes it look smooth yeah it's not I
Speaker:wouldn't say the skin is where the air
Speaker:is against you have different bladders
Speaker:inside there that are holding the air
Speaker:okay okay so it gives it more stability
Speaker:and strength but there's nothing rigid
Speaker:right and so then a blimp like the
Speaker:Goodwill blimp is all just a bladder but
Speaker:again different bladders inside minus
Speaker:like the control bottom part yes which
Speaker:is nothing is it's just attached again
Speaker:to the skin but again you're keeping
Speaker:different bladders inside of it
Speaker:to again give it more stability so it's
Speaker:not just the skin helium in the skin
Speaker:right and that's it you poke a hole and
Speaker:yeah that's it no it starts leaking out
Speaker:yeah like a little balloon
Speaker:swirling around to the ground they keep
Speaker:different like balloons inside of it
Speaker:okay to give it more stability I don't
Speaker:think I ever actually knew that I I
Speaker:think in my brain I just thought like
Speaker:it's one giant balloon I never honestly
Speaker:really thought about it that much no I
Speaker:think you can control filling it up and
Speaker:things like that and you probably can
Speaker:control leaks yeah in that regard as
Speaker:well so it makes more sense but those
Speaker:are the three different types of Airship
Speaker:so when like we talk about Randy in A
Speaker:Christmas Story yeah who gets the
Speaker:zeppeliness yeah so yeah it's it's the
Speaker:rigid and that that's exactly what the
Speaker:Hindenburg is and I think the hint when
Speaker:you if you ever see that crashing video
Speaker:it does a really good job of showing you
Speaker:what the frame I mean one it's in it's
Speaker:in our video if you go and look it up if
Speaker:you're listening you can look watch it
Speaker:in our video or you can just Google you
Speaker:know the Hindenburg crash and people
Speaker:have actually like colorized the video
Speaker:EO and they've they've made it HD and
Speaker:this that and the other and as much as
Speaker:you can for a video from from
Speaker:1937. Yes um which is pretty amazing
Speaker:yeah you see people running away and
Speaker:looking yeah it's pretty amazing so it
Speaker:was been to the Roma was meant to hold a
Speaker:hundred people oh that's a lot so just
Speaker:like in Indiana Jones right it's
Speaker:supposed to be transatlantic flights so
Speaker:somewhat comfortable flying right and
Speaker:now I think if I remember right in
Speaker:Indiana Jones I had like to tell like
Speaker:airplanes that dropped out of the bottom
Speaker:did they ever actually have something
Speaker:like that so I think the Macon the USS
Speaker:Macon which I think was the biggest
Speaker:which someone actually corrected us yes
Speaker:it's the biggest Airship that was ever
Speaker:owned by the United States was made to
Speaker:be an aircraft carrier okay that was its
Speaker:purpose so just like in the movie Nina
Speaker:Jones if it again if anybody's watched
Speaker:it right think about that scene where
Speaker:they're trying to escape right they were
Speaker:escaping out of Germany in the Zeppelin
Speaker:and then all of a sudden they realized
Speaker:they were caught so they go down to
Speaker:wherever the hangar your Bay is we'll
Speaker:call it that and they drop into an
Speaker:airplane and Escape by dropping out of
Speaker:an airplane out of a zeppelin yes but
Speaker:they make an like most airships in
Speaker:America met its demise off the coast of
Speaker:San Francisco yeah that us but didn't
Speaker:have as many casualties I think it only
Speaker:had two casualties I think at the time
Speaker:because they had just issued life
Speaker:jackets to everybody and it was
Speaker:relatively warm and it crashed well it
Speaker:was relatively controlled crap yeah that
Speaker:was I think there was there was two
Speaker:Corrections that we had to make
Speaker:so the Macon was the largest the largest
Speaker:and the largest disaster was the Akron
Speaker:that's right and that happened in in New
Speaker:Jersey yeah just like the Hindenburg
Speaker:yeah and I think that was in the upper
Speaker:upper numbers of the 60s the people that
Speaker:died another military it might have even
Speaker:been like in the 70s or something
Speaker:people because on the Roma you have 34
Speaker:casualties nine people will survive five
Speaker:yeah but 34 people will die but this was
Speaker:the first so this is 1922. uh the Akron
Speaker:I think will be in the 1930s I also
Speaker:think the the making is in the 1930s
Speaker:yeah this was like the first yeah well
Speaker:and at the time again this was the
Speaker:largest one we had just brought it over
Speaker:from you know overseas and this that and
Speaker:the other we're trying to push the
Speaker:envelope with Aviation and all that
Speaker:stuff and here it is like four months
Speaker:and they're making video of it right so
Speaker:this is video that's 15 years before the
Speaker:Hindenburg tons of video and they're
Speaker:showing they're showing you so basically
Speaker:what fails on the Roma is that Rudder
Speaker:box and they're they're showing close
Speaker:close-up footage yeah it's pretty I was
Speaker:actually pretty surprised that I got I
Speaker:was able to find on YouTube such clear
Speaker:video so you can see this box it looks
Speaker:basically like a bike like you would
Speaker:imagine just a rudimentary box but this
Speaker:is how you're controlling the Airship
Speaker:and that fails it basically goes
Speaker:sideways yeah and it just takes a nose
Speaker:dive and just takes a nose dive and
Speaker:people were just watching this and it
Speaker:happens right at the Norfolk base which
Speaker:is now the Norfolk International
Speaker:Terminal where all the shipping comes in
Speaker:and out of
Speaker:and it cracked it hits telephone lines
Speaker:before it hits the ground it's those
Speaker:telephone lines that ignite the hydrogen
Speaker:and then it takes like five hours to put
Speaker:the fire out so and they're different
Speaker:fire stations that respond and the
Speaker:marker that we go to in the video is at
Speaker:one of those fire stations yeah so
Speaker:that's why the marker is there it's not
Speaker:yeah it's and it's funny that we like I
Speaker:drive by it literally every day on my
Speaker:way to work and I had never known it was
Speaker:there so this is one of those kind of
Speaker:cool
Speaker:circumstances where there's history lip
Speaker:you know just right practically in our
Speaker:backyard that I'm driving by every
Speaker:single day on the way to work and you
Speaker:tell me where it is and I'm like oh yeah
Speaker:there's a Starbucks like 20 feet from
Speaker:there and then there's the fire station
Speaker:um and then you know a quarter mile
Speaker:around the corner is is my base so so it
Speaker:was purchased for a hundred and eighty
Speaker:four thousand so today it would be 2.7
Speaker:million yeah so a good chunk of change
Speaker:yeah not and
Speaker:so we talked about 34 people were killed
Speaker:eight were injured three escaped I
Speaker:thought a neat point that you brought up
Speaker:was like even today when construction
Speaker:crews are like digging or they're
Speaker:building a house or they still find
Speaker:pieces from the Roma they do screws or
Speaker:bolts or you know some sort of metal
Speaker:piece trying to think of this huge
Speaker:Airship crashing there's 400 and some
Speaker:feet long yeah 410 feet long 82 feet
Speaker:wide 92 feet high yeah like it's pretty
Speaker:big yeah and Langley still has a road
Speaker:named Roma Road
Speaker:after the Roma yes I think 400 feet
Speaker:that's that's a football field and more
Speaker:and then some right so think think of an
Speaker:entire football stadium essentially
Speaker:being filled up with an Airship yeah or
Speaker:with hydrogen yeah A flammable air yeah
Speaker:and back then they were probably smoking
Speaker:right they were probably sitting there
Speaker:smoking down below like ah this is just
Speaker:fun I mean everybody did right they
Speaker:didn't even think about it it's a safety
Speaker:hazard yeah um but the the room was
Speaker:largely forgotten now because the
Speaker:Hindenburg when people think of airships
Speaker:they think of the Hindenburg and after
Speaker:that Hindenburg crashes I mean people
Speaker:just lose their confidence well because
Speaker:because it's so clearly caught on camera
Speaker:I think that's really what it is right
Speaker:and we see that throughout history right
Speaker:whether it's Vietnam in the 70s and
Speaker:stuff like that so this was such a clear
Speaker:shot even by today's standards I mean it
Speaker:was like Center frame it goes Corner
Speaker:down so you're seeing the whole thing
Speaker:and it's just up in flame so you you
Speaker:just see the skin just disappear and
Speaker:Flame and then it just like this metal
Speaker:frame just melts I
Speaker:think it's night yes so it makes it like
Speaker:even more yeah it's just way over the
Speaker:top so talk about some especially back
Speaker:then yes like holy cow and I you know so
Speaker:doing this video made me think of
Speaker:where I've heard these words were like
Speaker:Led Zeppelin right so I like I Love Led
Speaker:Zeppelin so where do they come up with
Speaker:that name like is that an unflyable
Speaker:Airship yeah and then I thought about
Speaker:Red Hot Chili Peppers come and fly my
Speaker:Zephyr and that is is also like a
Speaker:zeppelin so and we think of airships is
Speaker:something fun and exciting you know we
Speaker:think about them now Around the World in
Speaker:80 Days or something they have those
Speaker:types we like to romanticize we like to
Speaker:romanticize but like at the time it's
Speaker:interesting that America had this the
Speaker:Roma disaster which was a pretty big
Speaker:news
Speaker:and so we switched from hydrogen to
Speaker:helium yeah and but the Germans I mean
Speaker:the the Zeppelin the uh the Hindenburg
Speaker:was German right so they obviously and
Speaker:that was in 1937 so this was 15 15 years
Speaker:later they didn't change they were
Speaker:sticking they were sticking with it
Speaker:um and then I'm sure they probably
Speaker:changed their mind you know after that
Speaker:one
Speaker:foreign this was just kind of such an
Speaker:interesting one it's a super super Niche
Speaker:and so I don't know how well this
Speaker:particular video ought to be perfectly
Speaker:honest will ever really do it's not
Speaker:going to be a high view video but it's
Speaker:super interesting it's super interesting
Speaker:and it's a part of Aviation that it gets
Speaker:explored and it's cool like I said
Speaker:you'll know when you see a dirgeable
Speaker:hanger and I don't think this is a
Speaker:question on Triple Pursuit that you and
Speaker:I both got because we had just been to
Speaker:the Empire State Building
Speaker:but the Empire State Building is a mast
Speaker:that's right durgibles yes they built it
Speaker:for that and they actually I think
Speaker:because they can tether off yes I think
Speaker:they actually did it one time yeah you
Speaker:know probably in the 20s when people
Speaker:still flew them yeah that guy probably
Speaker:got his wings he was running doing his
Speaker:calls right he's like okay we're gonna
Speaker:tether to the top of the Empire State
Speaker:Building yes but that's what that is
Speaker:it's a Mass for durable yeah that's
Speaker:that's really cool well again this this
Speaker:was a super fun one and this is a short
Speaker:video and I think this will be a shorter
Speaker:episode for us today but as you
Speaker:mentioned in the video Aviation has the
Speaker:saying that their manuals are Written in
Speaker:Blood and that's because of the
Speaker:experience and the crashes
Speaker:from the past like with the broma and
Speaker:the Airship Aroma crash was one of the
Speaker:earliest examples of that
Speaker:but don't forget that we can look back
Speaker:on these earliest of aviators and know
Speaker:that they were doing things that no one
Speaker:had ever done which is not something
Speaker:that everyone can say
Speaker:so again thank you for listening to talk
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