The Doolittle Raid and Sullivan Brothers of World War 2
Travel to Historic Locations with History or Drive.
Jenn visited Arlington National Cemetery to honor two World War II legacies: General James Doolittle, who led the April 1942 Doolittle Raid; and the five Sullivan brothers of Waterloo, Iowa, who enlisted into the Navy together.
00:00 Doolittle and the Sullivan brothers
00:02 Arlington Opening
00:33 Meet the Hosts
01:30 Podcast Reviews
02:55 App Membership Update
05:01 Pearl Harbor Context
08:22 Planning the Doolittle Raid
11:49 Raid Execution and Impact
13:20 Doolittle at Arlington
15:46 Who Were the Sullivans
18:36 USS Juneau Tragedy
20:30 Legacy and Sole Survivor Policy
21:45 Arlington Memorial Section
24:15 Final Reflections
🎥 Video version of this podcast
-------------------------------------------------------
⬇️ Help us keep the show going and explore history with us! ⬇️
🧳 Plus...get free travel resources in your inbox.
-------------------------------------------------------
📧 contact: talkwithhistory@gmail.com
Talk with History is a global Top 40 History podcast on Feedspot!
Mentioned in this episode:
History or Drive App annoucnement add
Transcript
Imagine walking through the quiet rolling hills of Arlington National Cemetery.
Speaker:Every white headstone tells a story of service, but today we are stopping at
Speaker:two grave sites that represent the very heart of the American spirit during
Speaker:the darkest days of World War II.
Speaker:One is the resting place of a pioneer, a man who proved that no
Speaker:target was out of reach even when the world felt like it was crumbling.
Speaker:The other is a site that honors the sacrifice of five brothers.
Speaker:Welcome to Talk With History.
Speaker:One filmmaker, one historian leading history-inspired world travels
Speaker:for the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.
Speaker:I'm your host Scott, here with my wife and historian Jenn.
Speaker:Hello.
Speaker:Today, we're taking you to the hallowed ground of Arlington to
Speaker:honor some of the most recognizable names from the Greatest Generation.
Speaker:We're visiting the grave of General James Doolittle, the mastermind behind the
Speaker:daring 1942 raid on Tokyo that lifted a nation's spirits when we needed it most.
Speaker:We'll talk about the legacy of the Sullivan brothers, five siblings
Speaker:from Waterloo, Iowa, who insisted on serving together on the USS Juneau.
Speaker:Their background, their bond, and their ultimate sacrifice was so
Speaker:profound that it changed the way our military operates forever.
Speaker:Today, we are paying our respects to the legends of Arlington National Cemetery.
Speaker:All right, Jenn, so before... Yes, you don't recognize me now.
Speaker:Before we get into our main topic here, I do wanna get some shouts because we got
Speaker:some five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:So after our, our last couple calls out, we, I saw our, our, our review jump up.
Speaker:So if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, keep it up, folks.
Speaker:My goal, I would love to get to 100 reviews by the end of the year.
Speaker:We're in the mid-50s, l- uh, higher 50s now.
Speaker:But- We have to catch
Speaker:the History Channel
Speaker:... we gotta catch the History Channel that's got a couple million.
Speaker:So, but we had some five-star reviews.
Speaker:Two folks who left us five-star reviews, um, wrote us a little review.
Speaker:This, so this one is from Sandra Dee.
Speaker:There's four Es in that, if you're listening.
Speaker:So the S- Sandra Dee wrote, "History is great. Great topics and great narration.
Speaker:I just found you and can't wait to binge the backlog." Great to have you, Sandra.
Speaker:Thank you so much for, for the five-star review.
Speaker:And then this one is from Sub Vet Steve.
Speaker:Walk and talk- the mes- the title is Walk and Talk with History.
Speaker:"I have been following you, following your videos on YouTube for a while now.
Speaker:I just started watching your podcast.
Speaker:I find them very interesting and inform- formative.
Speaker:I find your take unique as a Navy submarine vet." Mm. So thank
Speaker:you so much, Sub Vet Steve- Yeah
Speaker:um, for that.
Speaker:It was, that was, uh, super fun to kinda get those reviews directly from, from our
Speaker:listeners, so we really appreciate it.
Speaker:Also, we're getting enough lifetime members now.
Speaker:Remember, you can go check that out at thehistoryroadtrip.com.
Speaker:We're getting a left- enough lifetime members now that, uh, my outro is getting
Speaker:too long to read everybody's name.
Speaker:I think we've got, gosh, over 20 now, if you're counting some of our legacy folks.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:So we've got a bunch of new folks on board that are lifetime members largely because
Speaker:we launched our History Road Trip app.
Speaker:So if you wanna get a lifetime membership, that includes lifetime access to our
Speaker:History Road Trip app, and you can check that out over at historyordrive.com.
Speaker:So our outro is getting so long with all these lifetime members that we
Speaker:have, so I'm, I'm not gonna read everybody's name at the very end
Speaker:now 'cause it would take forever.
Speaker:But I am gonna shout out any new lifetime members in each of our podcast episodes.
Speaker:For other folks, if you're interested in a lifetime membership, again,
Speaker:you get lifetime access to our new app that we just launched.
Speaker:Uh, we've got a b- couple videos out.
Speaker:I'll put, make sure I put, uh, video links in the, in the description to those.
Speaker:We got on livestream with JD from History Underground, History
Speaker:or Drive, historyordrive.com.
Speaker:If you're interested in that, the price will go up for that lifetime
Speaker:membership because this app was a fair amount, was a pretty hefty undertaking.
Speaker:And so that will, that lifetime membership price will probably go up
Speaker:sometime in the next couple months.
Speaker:I was gonna do it in June, but because it's America 250, maybe
Speaker:I'll wait till after 4th of July.
Speaker:But if you're interested, it's $99 right now.
Speaker:We are gonna increase that price because it helps the channel, and
Speaker:that's gonna get you lifetime access.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um-
Speaker:And it's just a one-time cost.
Speaker:Yeah, one, one time cost.
Speaker:So just $99 for the rest of your life.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Period.
Speaker:You never pay again, which is great because there's no reoccurring monthly
Speaker:cost, and we just didn't want to do, like, a Patreon kind of thing.
Speaker:We just wanted it to be one time, easy-
Speaker:For our lifetime members, yeah
Speaker:... and you're in.
Speaker:So the advantage-
Speaker:And if, and if that's not for you and you wanna pay 30 cents a month to check
Speaker:out the History Road Trip app, that's the price right now that is a crazy deal
Speaker:but we wanna give this to you guys.
Speaker:We wanna help you get out there and travel because that's our mission.
Speaker:That's our goal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Jenn, World War II history.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:People love World War II history.
Speaker:Well, it was a huge war, and it, it saved the world, but-
Speaker:It was
Speaker:... when we talk about the two areas of history we're gonna talk about,
Speaker:the Doolittle Raid and the Sullivan Brothers, both of these events are
Speaker:precipitated because of Pearl Harbor.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So when you think of December 7th, 1941, the day that lives in infamy,
Speaker:it was when America came under attack from the Imperial Empire of Japan.
Speaker:And so many men were killed, and in such a vast amount of
Speaker:time, and entombed in ships.
Speaker:Think of the Arizona, right?
Speaker:It was just a huge shock to America, the US Navy.
Speaker:So Doolittle Raid is gonna be in response to that, and the Sullivan Brothers,
Speaker:when we talk about them, they have a sister who has a boyfriend named
Speaker:Bill Ball, who was on the Arizona.
Speaker:And so they all join up because of their sister's boyfriend, and and Doolittle
Speaker:Raid is a response to Pearl Harbor.
Speaker:So let's talk about the Doolittle Raid.
Speaker:Yeah, and, and I, and I wanna remember our, our younger listeners and
Speaker:watchers, 'cause we do get some folks commenting, we had not pulled, been,
Speaker:been pulled into the war yet, right?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:We had- we hadn't really been, been pulled in, right?
Speaker:We were kinda doing this we were staying out of it type thing, and then
Speaker:when we got struck at Pearl Harbor, gloves were off and we were all in.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We were helping the British, so you f- you know, Americans were going
Speaker:over and fighting with the British.
Speaker:They were becoming, I wouldn't say British subjects, but they were flying
Speaker:for England, and we were helping with supplies and things like that to England,
Speaker:but we were not entering the war.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We were really trying to take a stance of neutrality, and because at the time
Speaker:we didn't w- know exactly how bad the, um, the Socialist Party of Germany, the
Speaker:Nazis, had, had gotten, we didn't know what they were doing there at the time.
Speaker:And really, all of that doesn't really come out- Until the end of the war
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I, I just wanna remind our, our younger listeners, our you- younger
Speaker:viewers of that, is that is, that is why these two that we're about to talk
Speaker:about, General Doolittle and the Sullivan brothers that is why Pearl Harbor really
Speaker:was kind of the, the spark that lit the fire that s- you know, got kinda
Speaker:Doolittle his fame and then what brought the Sullivan brothers into the war.
Speaker:But know that the war has been raging in- Yep ... Europe for years now.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And Poland's been taken over, France has been taken over.
Speaker:So it's been, it's been raging for years, but America has tried to stay out of it.
Speaker:Now, you also have to bear in mind, we talk about this, the
Speaker:technology of the wars, Germany was at the peak of it right now.
Speaker:Germany and Japan are at the top of their game right now.
Speaker:America is not.
Speaker:When it comes to world powers, we're like seventh at the time.
Speaker:We're not making warships, we're not making planes, we're not doing any of
Speaker:that, and we're just kind of maintaining.
Speaker:And so Germany, tip of the spear, they are turning out
Speaker:diesel subs.
Speaker:So they're, they're at the pin- the pinnacle of their-
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:... technology, and so is Japan with their Zero aircraft.
Speaker:And, and that's, and that's why what Doolittle did was pretty incredible.
Speaker:So December 7th happens, America is decimated, and they are fearful that
Speaker:the Japanese are gonna go further east.
Speaker:They're worried that the Japanese now are, uh, Pearl H- Hawaii was
Speaker:just a, a, a, a stopping point.
Speaker:Yeah, just kind of a stopping point.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:'Cause if, if people don't know, it's only like a week-long ship ride, right?
Speaker:It's only about seven days from Hawaii to the coast of California.
Speaker:Yeah ... but folks need to remember, right, and from our Navy days, we
Speaker:know it's only a, it's only a one-week kinda boat ride, right, on the ship-
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:from Hawaii to the coast of California.
Speaker:That is, in Navy terms, that is spitting distance.
Speaker:Nothing.
Speaker:And so when you think about that these- Planes were launched
Speaker:from aircraft carriers, Japanese aircraft carriers to Hawaii.
Speaker:The, the fear was, oh my gosh, they're gonna attack the western part
Speaker:of the continental United States.
Speaker:So that's what Doolittle is in response to.
Speaker:Doolittle is trying to take the war to the Pacific, and if you know anything
Speaker:about history, he's successful at that.
Speaker:But that, that's what he's trying to do, and that's what the
Speaker:success of it is trying to do.
Speaker:But how do you do this?
Speaker:We are not the Navy that we are today.
Speaker:We are not this aviation Navy at the time.
Speaker:I would say because of Pearl Harbor, we become a big aviation Navy because
Speaker:what is out to sea during the attack on Pearl Harbor is the aircraft carriers.
Speaker:That's why you don't hear of aircraft carriers being sunk at Pearl Harbor.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's all battleships because the Navy at the time was a battleship navy.
Speaker:That's what we thought of the Navy, big guns, big battleships,
Speaker:get up close and just fire.
Speaker:It wasn't so much getting planes on the, the ships and getting 'em close.
Speaker:That is all necessity after Pearl Harbor.
Speaker:So that's where this idea of bombers on an aircraft carrier comes from.
Speaker:We hadn't really been experimenting with that yet.
Speaker:We hadn't been trying that yet.
Speaker:So Doolittle Lieutenant Colonel James Doolittle, he's gonna plan this attack.
Speaker:He's gonna lead this attack.
Speaker:He's gonna take the B-25 bomber.
Speaker:It is a lighter aircraft even then.
Speaker:He makes it even lighter by taking off all of its guns and extra fuel
Speaker:tanks, and trying to get as close as they can to Japan to fire on Tokyo.
Speaker:But unfortunately, Pearl Harbor happens December 7th.
Speaker:Not only are they trying to reconstruct, but they're trying, what's the response?
Speaker:So Doolittle says, "Let's try this response.
Speaker:Let's get these medium weight bombers.
Speaker:Let's launch 'em off a carrier, and let's bomb them, and- Whatever damage
Speaker:we can do, whether or not it'll scare them enough to know that we
Speaker:can respond to this kind of attack.
Speaker:And so they practice.
Speaker:They draw the lines on runways, they're taking all the weight off, and they're
Speaker:seeing if they can get these planes off the ground from the marks on the
Speaker:ground the size of an aircraft carrier.
Speaker:I didn't know they did that.
Speaker:That's cool
Speaker:... they, they, and they c- they kept trying and kept trying.
Speaker:And so much so, like, this happens in April of 1942, so- The D-
Speaker:the Doolittle
Speaker:Raid ... the Doolittle Raid.
Speaker:So this is how quick they mount this response and they practice this.
Speaker:Uh, they get their best pilots, they fly 16 of these aircraft off, five
Speaker:crew in a B-25, and again, they're, they're taking off any weight that
Speaker:they can, all the guns that they have.
Speaker:They take them off and put broomsticks in there- Yeah ... to
Speaker:look like they have guns.
Speaker:Their whole idea is, "We're gonna be fast enough to hit them, we won't need defense.
Speaker:We'll be on the offense the whole time, and then we'll get out of there." And
Speaker:like Scott said, the plan was to make it back, but when they're spotted early on-
Speaker:By the Japanese
Speaker:by the Japanese, they have to quickly decide, "We have just
Speaker:enough fuel to make it there.
Speaker:Who still wants to do this?
Speaker:You'll have to end up ditching.
Speaker:You could try to fly to China, who will be friendly at the
Speaker:time, and maybe make it home.
Speaker:But it's up to you." In the end, they really go, "It's up to you what you do.
Speaker:These are what you can do, but you have basically enough fuel to make it to Tokyo.
Speaker:Who wants out?" And nobody wants out.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Everybody wants to do this.
Speaker:Doolittle will fly in the very first plane off the carrier, so, um, the
Speaker:number one B-25 off is Doolittle.
Speaker:He flies it.
Speaker:And then 16 others will go after.
Speaker:And they are successful.
Speaker:They do bring an attack to Tokyo.
Speaker:Now, some will go to China, one will go to Russia, uh, one will actually,
Speaker:uh, ditch into the, to the ocean.
Speaker:But because they are successful, because they launch this counterattack, Ja-
Speaker:the Japanese pull back their offensive, and that was, that's what makes this
Speaker:so successful, is now the Japanese, the war is taken to the Pacific.
Speaker:And as you know, the two fronts will be, you know, Germany and and the Pacific.
Speaker:But that's, it's because of this Doolittle Raid that the, the front
Speaker:gets pulled back to the Pacific, and it's because of the success of this.
Speaker:And so we were in Arlington, and we came upon James Doolittle's grave, and what's
Speaker:so interesting- is I was there April 18th.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I did not even realize- Like the day
Speaker:of the
Speaker:raid ... the day of the raid.
Speaker:I did not even realize I was there that day, came upon his grave,
Speaker:and wanted to tell his story.
Speaker:So, the raid's named for him because he's the one who thinks of it all.
Speaker:he gets the Medal of Honor for this raid.
Speaker:Yeah, and one interesting anecdote that I found when I was making a video
Speaker:was I guess they, the targets that they hit when they finally flew over
Speaker:Japan and dropped the bombs weren't the exact targets that they had planned on.
Speaker:And so Doolittle actually thought he was gonna get fired by the
Speaker:time he got back because he didn't hit the intended targets.
Speaker:But the success of the bombing run was so great publicly, and what it caused
Speaker:Japan to do, like you said, to kind of pull back, so they had, they knew now
Speaker:all of a sudden they had to defend their home front, that he didn't get fired.
Speaker:He got promoted.
Speaker:I think he skipped colonel and went straight to brigadier general
Speaker:or something like that, one star.
Speaker:And, and then he got awarded the Medal of Honor.
Speaker:So it's kind of funny that you, you, you carry out this, this daring mission
Speaker:that's, you know, lives in history now, thinks he's gonna get fired,
Speaker:and then, then he gets promoted.
Speaker:Well, it's, it's so funny because they, they're launching
Speaker:this experiment anyway, right?
Speaker:And Doolittle is, is, he's all in.
Speaker:Like we're gonna, we're gonna launch these bombers off an aircraft carrier.
Speaker:We're gonna make it work.
Speaker:Then they get spotted.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:The Hornet gets spotted, and so they gotta launch early.
Speaker:He's gonna launch these bombers off a carrier, but he's gonna do it further
Speaker:out than they thought they were gonna be.
Speaker:They don't quite make it to their point, their destinations.
Speaker:He's, doesn't stop him from bombing.
Speaker:He's still gonna bomb Japan- Yeah ... and give them an awakening, a response,
Speaker:and then he's gonna try to survive.
Speaker:So he actually does survive.
Speaker:Doolittle is one of the people who make it to China, and the Chinese
Speaker:actually hide him and help him, and the Chinese Will pay for this.
Speaker:They have a lot of people who will come under attack from the Japanese
Speaker:because of their help to the Americans.
Speaker:Um, and he actually makes it back relatively early and is able to
Speaker:fight w- in the rest of the war.
Speaker:, and it was, it was neat for you able to see his gravesite at Arlington 'cause
Speaker:we've been to Arlington, if you guys have been following us for a while, we've
Speaker:been to Arlington a whole bunch of times.
Speaker:So if you guys are curious you know, search the Talk With History website.
Speaker:But, uh, it was cool for you to be able to go and visit his gravesite while you're
Speaker:there with, with John Kiriakou- Mm-hmm ... who we'll, we'll talk about our, our
Speaker:videos that we did with him, you know, in future episodes here coming up soon.
Speaker:Now, I had only learned about the Sullivan brothers because you had bought this World
Speaker:War II poster, and you had - we, there's a flea market close by, and Jenn loves
Speaker:her history stuff, like as anybody will know, and there was kind of, it came out
Speaker:after all of this stuff happened with the brothers, and there, but it be- kind
Speaker:of became like a rallying cry, right?
Speaker:They did their part- Mm-hmm ... I think is what the- Yeah ... poster says.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And so tell us a little bit about the Sullivan brothers, and there's
Speaker:actually a movie that came out a couple years after this happened as well.
Speaker:Like a year.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's so funny.
Speaker:They, they capitalized quickly on the brothers and their story.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So the brothers are responding to Pearl Harbor, and then
Speaker:they, they're lost in 1942.
Speaker:The poster comes out in 1943.
Speaker:The movie comes out in 1944.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So they have five brothers from Waterloo, Iowa, and all with the
Speaker:last name Sullivan, so that's why when you hear the Sullivan brothers.
Speaker:Um, George is 27, Francis, Frank, is 26, Jo- Joseph, Joe, is 24, Madison,
Speaker:Matt, is 23, and Albert, Al, is 20.
Speaker:So five brothers.
Speaker:Now, in between these brothers is a sister Genevieve.
Speaker:She's born in 1917, so uh, she has a boyfriend named Bill Ball who dies
Speaker:on the Arizona, and that prompts all of her brothers to avenge him.
Speaker:Okay, so, so her boyfriend died in the Pearl Harbor attack.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And so they all wanna join up.
Speaker:Now, two of the brothers, George, the two oldest ones, George and
Speaker:Frank, had already been in the Navy.
Speaker:They were discharged in 1941, early in 1941, uh, before war, and so it was
Speaker:easier for them to just re-up, basically.
Speaker:But they brought their three younger brothers with them.
Speaker:Only one of the brothers was married.
Speaker:Al was married, uh, and had a wife and a child named Jimmy.
Speaker:And so when you hear of grandchildren of the Sullivan brothers, it's
Speaker:Al's descendants because none of the other brothers were married.
Speaker:Two of them were engaged, but no one had married or had children.
Speaker:And so they all join up, and their whole premise was they wanted to serve together.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And at first the Navy was very reluctant for that because they had
Speaker:a stipulation where, um, they, they didn't want siblings to serve together.
Speaker:It was not, but it wasn't strictly enforced.
Speaker:It was just kinda like, we prefer they don't.
Speaker:But it, it, it came when they went onto the Juneau, there were other
Speaker:sets of brothers on the Juneau.
Speaker:Yeah, so, so they, so they got their way.
Speaker:They got their way.
Speaker:And it, it, you know, there were sets of brothers on the Arizona too, so it wasn't
Speaker:like this was a strictly enforced policy.
Speaker:So it was easier for them to go, "Okay, we- you can all serve together on
Speaker:the Juneau." So, uh, they enlist on January 3rd, 1942, so again, right after
Speaker:Pearl Harbor, right after Christmas.
Speaker:And, uh, they are all sent to the Juneau.
Speaker:It pa- and it participates in the Guadalcanal campaign,
Speaker:begins in August of 1942.
Speaker:We- ear- early in the morning of November 13th, um, during the Battle
Speaker:of Guadalcanal, the Juneau will exchange fire with Japanese destroyers.
Speaker:It's hit by a destroyer, and then it's actually sunk by a torpedo
Speaker:and what happens is all five of the brothers will perish.
Speaker:Now, they don't all perish that same day.
Speaker:So the re- the survivors report that Frank, Joe, and
Speaker:Matt are all killed instantly.
Speaker:Al, the one with the son and the wife, he's drowns the next day.
Speaker:And George, the oldest, survives for four or five days, but he starts to suffer
Speaker:from delirium and hypothermia, and he is just grieving his four brothers.
Speaker:Uh, he climbs off the side of the lifeboat, of the raft.
Speaker:He waves goodbye, and he's never seen or heard from again.
Speaker:Oh, wow.
Speaker:So all five of them went down with the Juneau, and so that's why the poster,
Speaker:the five Sullivan brothers missing in action in the Solomons, is what it
Speaker:would say, and it has the five stars.
Speaker:And if you know anything about the stars on a flag, they would be blue
Speaker:on a flag with a white background and a red stripe around it.
Speaker:If you're lost during war, those stars turn to gold, and that's when you hear
Speaker:gold star widow or the Sullivan brothers' mother became a gold star mother.
Speaker:And so the poster comes out after that.
Speaker:The Sullivan brothers' parents go on, uh, war bond drives and things like that.
Speaker:When they actually christen the first Sullivan ship, it will be their mother who
Speaker:christens it with the champagne bottle.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Their sister, in response to this, will join the Waves, and
Speaker:she will serve out the rest of the time in the military as the Wave.
Speaker:She will survive.
Speaker:So they have, they have their one daughter, and of course, they have
Speaker:their grandson in Jimmy, and then Jimmy will go on to have other children.
Speaker:But this Turns into an act, and you've seen Saving Private Ryan, and you've
Speaker:seen what kind of happens when you hear a lot of siblings from one family have,
Speaker:uh, paid the ultimate price for freedom.
Speaker:They try to make sure a mother doesn't lose all their children, and it's called
Speaker:the Sole Survivor Policy now in the Navy.
Speaker:Uh, and it, actually every service has a variation of it.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And it has been enacted.
Speaker:It has been enacted a couple times.
Speaker:I was looking at, uh, the Niland brothers is kind of who Saving
Speaker:Private Ryan is based off of, and if you've seen our video to Normandy,
Speaker:we see two of the Niland brothers.
Speaker:Same thing happened in Afghanistan.
Speaker:A Navy Seal, there were three brothers.
Speaker:A Navy Seal was killed, and then a special armed forces combat medic
Speaker:was killed in Afghanistan, and they found his, their brother, who was
Speaker:a, a Marine, and sent him home.
Speaker:So this happens today.
Speaker:They never want a mother or a family to have lost all of their children- Yep
Speaker:in conflict.
Speaker:And so it, it's a, it's an, uh, it's a regulation, the Sole Survivor Policy.
Speaker:If you know you're serving with your family members, if something
Speaker:like that were to happen, you're, you're immediately discharged
Speaker:from the military and sent back.
Speaker:Now, now one thing I would encourage folks to, to check out our video.
Speaker:One, uh, the video on location, because they have a, they have a
Speaker:headstone for each of the brothers.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So there's five headstones in Arlington even though they,
Speaker:they were never, never found.
Speaker:But you said they were in the same section as other folks who their
Speaker:bodies were never found, like, um
Speaker:Glenn Miller.
Speaker:Glenn Miller, right, in, in sim- in, in that similar section.
Speaker:But also the movie, which came out in 1944, a lot of people would recognize
Speaker:some of the actors in the movie.
Speaker:And so it was actually kinda neat as I, as I pulled up the movie.
Speaker:You can find it on YouTube, and I think it's free.
Speaker:Yeah, The
Speaker:Fighting
Speaker:Sullivans.
Speaker:Um, The Fighting Sullivans.
Speaker:So if you go onto YouTube and you look up The Fighting Sullivans,
Speaker:they spend the majority of the movie focusing on their lives, right?
Speaker:Kind of as kids, and then, a- as they're growing up, and
Speaker:then as they go off to the war.
Speaker:But you'll recognize the Sullivans' father, he was in the S- the
Speaker:Sullivans' father was- Gone With the
Speaker:Wind
Speaker:well, the Sullivans' father was, uh, wasn't he the uncle
Speaker:from It's a Wonderful Life?
Speaker:Yeah, he's also in Gone With the Wind.
Speaker:Gone With the Wind.
Speaker:He plays her father.
Speaker:Um, but Ward Bond plays a Navy officer when- Also
Speaker:in It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker:Also in I- It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker:So you'll recognize some of the actors i- in the movie, uh, The Fighting Sullivans.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So it's kinda fun to go see.
Speaker:That's black and white.
Speaker:Yes, and it's, again, these movies came out relatively, the poster
Speaker:comes out relatively quickly.
Speaker:The movie comes out relatively quickly because this is all a part
Speaker:of the war fighting effort to re- People didn't die in vain, right?
Speaker:They're answering the call of freedom.
Speaker:They're answering the call of what happened to Pearl Harbor.
Speaker:It was nominated for a now discontinued Academy Award for Best Story.
Speaker:Oh, I didn't know
Speaker:that.
Speaker:I guess they used to give out for Best Story.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And because it's the story of the Sullivan brothers.
Speaker:But it's really great to see the five brothers, and it kinda
Speaker:gives them a good depiction-
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:of their lives.
Speaker:And like I said, I have the poster, and I think of the Sullivan brothers.
Speaker:The f- the shipwreck was found in 2007, but again, all the
Speaker:brothers went down with the ship.
Speaker:They treat it as a graveyard, so they don't go down there
Speaker:and excavate anything from it.
Speaker:But, uh, but they have found that shipwreck.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And i- and if you're in Arlington, right, and, and you're kinda doing, you're l-
Speaker:using the Arlington National Cemetery app, which that's a great app, uh, if
Speaker:you wanna look up graves, you can look these, look these up relatively easily.
Speaker:Yeah, and they have that whole memorial section.
Speaker:The gravestones are closer together, 'cause as you can imagine, they
Speaker:don't really bury anybody there.
Speaker:But they're just in memory, so you can visit someone like Glenn
Speaker:Miller, who was also lost at sea, and the Sullivan brothers.
Speaker:It's just a place you can go and leave something and remember them
Speaker:and, uh, and tell their story.
Speaker:As we walk back down the hill from the markers of the Doolittle and the Sullivan
Speaker:families, the silence of Arlington feels heavier, but also more profound.
Speaker:We've stood at the grave of a man who looked at an impossible mission and said,
Speaker:"We can do this." And we've honored the five brothers who looked at a world in
Speaker:crisis and said, "We must go together."
Speaker:The Doolittle Raid proved that courage could change the course of a
Speaker:war, but the story of the Sullivans reminds us of the devastating cost
Speaker:that often comes with that courage.
Speaker:From the skies over Tokyo to the depths of the Pacific, these men represent the
Speaker:absolute best of what it means to serve.
Speaker:Their stories aren't just etched in stone there in Arlington, they are woven into
Speaker:the very fabric of our national identity.
Speaker:Whether you are visiting the Doolittle grave to find inspiration for your own
Speaker:impossible tasks, or paying respects to the Sullivans to remember the
Speaker:weight of family and sacrifice, these are stops that stay with you long
Speaker:after you leave the cemetery gates.
Speaker:We'll talk to you next time.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:This has been a Walk With History production.
Speaker:Talk With History is created and hosted by me, Scott Bennie.
Speaker:Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.
Speaker:Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode.
Speaker:Talk With History is supported by our community at thehistoryroadtrip.com.
Speaker:Our eternal thanks go out to our lifetime members to help keep us going.
Speaker:Make sure you hit that follow button in that podcast player,
Speaker:and we'll talk to you next time.
