Episode 71

Deadwood history and Wild Bill Hickok's life and death

🎙 Attention: These new shirts may cause history-inspired travel

How could you not get excited to visit Deadwood and walk in the footsteps of one of the most well-known lawmen of the Wild West? Wild Bill Hickok was almost as famous for how he handled law-breakers as he was for the way he died.

If you like Western history, you will love this episode of Talk with History.

Full video from Deadwood

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Transcript
Scott:

Because it had the coffee infused in it.

Scott:

So it said it was like sweeter.

Scott:

So it already had kind of some, it's already.

Scott:

Mixed a little bit.

Scott:

Yeah.

Scott:

And it wasn't bad.

Scott:

I could definitely notice like kind of the, the coffee hint to it.

Scott:

Yeah.

Scott:

And that little bit of sweetness.

Scott:

If I was gonna try to, any, any of those other whiskeys a little

Scott:

bit straight, I'd have to be like in the, in the drinking mood.

Scott:

I guess this is appropriate if we're doing a podcast about cowboys and

Jenn:

stuff.

Jenn:

Welcome

Scott:

to Talk With History.

Scott:

I'm your host Scott, here with my wife and historian Jen.

Scott:

Hello.

Scott:

On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels

Scott:

YouTube channel journey and examine history through deeper conversations

Scott:

with the curious, the explorers and the history lovers out there.

Scott:

Now, before we get into our main topic, as always, we've been getting

Scott:

our some more reviews recently.

Scott:

So I really do appreciate that if you have 20 seconds to drop us a

Scott:

review on Apple podcasts or even drop us a five stars on Spotify.

Scott:

We greatly appreciate it because the show We actually had the

Scott:

highest month of downloads this last July ever for the podcast.

Scott:

So pat on the back for us.

Scott:

We almost, we got close to a thousand downloads for the whole month.

Scott:

So I'm pretty happy about that.

Scott:

So thank you for those who are listening and who are sharing the podcast.

Scott:

And Wild Bill Hickok was a legendary figure of the American Wild West,

Scott:

renowned for his exceptional shooting skills and reputation as a gunslinger.

Scott:

He served as a lawman, marshal, and scout during the Civil War and

Scott:

afterward in various frontier towns.

Scott:

Despite his law enforcement roles, he did have some bad habits and made some enemies

Scott:

that brought him to his now famous demise.

Scott:

So Jen, let's talk about this famous figure of the Wild West

Scott:

and where we were this summer.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jenn:

So we went to Deadwood,

Scott:

South Dakota.

Scott:

We did.

Scott:

It was honestly, it was kind of one of the few places I got.

Scott:

A little more excited to, to go see just because of the reputation of Deadwood, the

Scott:

show and just the whole Wild West thing.

Scott:

Sure.

Scott:

And like

Jenn:

the recreation of the picture of the main street, Deadwood is

Jenn:

the exact historic main street you walk down in Deadwood today.

Jenn:

So if you watch the show or anything like that, like you're, you're

Jenn:

walking through history of what.

Jenn:

It made this town so quickly and even what it's known for

Scott:

today.

Scott:

Yeah.

Scott:

And even I've noticed in the video, right, it's been out for

Scott:

a few days now, I've noticed the watch time is a little bit longer.

Scott:

And so YouTube kind of gives us these good kind of feedback metrics

Scott:

because, you know, I found some cool music that was actually very.

Scott:

Fits very well with the story.

Scott:

Yeah, this is kind of dead man walking song But there's lots of pictures of

Scott:

Deadwood and you describe it very well Even in the video when we're walking

Scott:

down this paved modern day street, you know with some throwback kind of

Scott:

touristy stuff But then showing the old pictures of these muddy muddy.

Scott:

It's just dirt

Jenn:

dirty road, and it's not even a road I would just say a

Jenn:

clearing where they have built up these makeshift wooden Buildings?

Jenn:

I wouldn't even use buildings.

Jenn:

It's like these lean tos that they have made and called them

Jenn:

saloons and called them brothels.

Scott:

Well, and you can picture it, right?

Scott:

Because you talk about in the video why they named it

Jenn:

Deadwood.

Jenn:

Yeah, a gulch of dead trees were found there.

Jenn:

And it is a little valley because it is pretty hilly around there.

Jenn:

And you're in the Black Hills.

Jenn:

So, uh, here's a valley area and they found these gulch of dead trees.

Jenn:

So they called it Deadwood.

Scott:

Yeah, and so remind me the era that everything kind of

Scott:

started coming together out there.

Jenn:

So you have to remember, this does not, this is American Indian territory.

Jenn:

Yeah, that's right.

Jenn:

It's not a state.

Jenn:

It is not a state.

Jenn:

And this is going to become a problem for Hickok's murder.

Jenn:

But this land belongs to the Lakota.

Jenn:

and it's belonged to them since the treaty of Fort Laramie of 1868.

Jenn:

So you can think almost, um, 10 years it's been their land.

Jenn:

Oh, wow.

Jenn:

And what happens is George Armstrong Custer comes through there in 1874.

Jenn:

So about six years, he's out there enforcing these treaties, and this

Jenn:

is what we get into Bighorn, which we'll talk about on another episode.

Jenn:

He's enforcing these, uh, treaties where the American Indians have

Jenn:

adhered to staying on certain areas, hence reservations,

Jenn:

and he's riding through here.

Jenn:

When gold is discovered, 1874, 1875, and so it becomes this big boom where

Jenn:

people want to go make their fortunes.

Jenn:

Yeah, the word gets out.

Jenn:

The word gets out.

Jenn:

And so they can't stop this influx of people, even though they should be.

Jenn:

George Armstrong Custer should be stopping these people because it's not.

Jenn:

Uh, their land.

Jenn:

And they shouldn't be settling it.

Jenn:

It belongs to the Lakota.

Jenn:

But he doesn't because he's part of it.

Jenn:

He also wants the gold and of course, uh, and so he allows these people to

Jenn:

come in and he, the military kind of like turns a blind eye to it and they start

Jenn:

to have these little makeshift buildings that pop up to service all the Fortune

Jenn:

hunters, miners, they come into the area.

Jenn:

So this is about 1876, 5, 000 people, 1877, 12, 000

Jenn:

people, 1878, 25, 000 people.

Jenn:

That

Scott:

kind of surprised me, even when I went back and I was making the video, like

Scott:

that is, especially back then, that is a

Jenn:

drastic, drastic.

Jenn:

Right.

Jenn:

And so it's incomprehensible how they could even govern it to begin with.

Jenn:

So it becomes a very lawless area, as you can imagine, because you get all these

Jenn:

men coming in to make their fortune.

Jenn:

And so you get a lot of gambling, you get a lot of alcoholism.

Jenn:

You get Hickok who's called here you get the brothels I know of course you

Jenn:

get the brothels pop up and we'll talk a little bit about one of the most famous

Jenn:

madams Who's very close to Hickok?

Jenn:

from the most Profitable brothel there in Deadwood.

Jenn:

But yeah, so these are things that gonna pop up for all these men you're gonna get

Jenn:

You know, restaurants, saloons, pop up liveries, so liveries where you put your

Jenn:

horse, butcher shops, uh, and makeshift tents and things like that, and brothels.

Jenn:

So what happens is you get wagon trains who, it's their business

Jenn:

to, you know, bring people, lead people from one area to another.

Jenn:

They navigate you through, right?

Jenn:

And if you watched 1883, this is a business of the time.

Jenn:

Usually you're paid.

Jenn:

before to take people through and you, you will help with supplies, you know

Jenn:

the area, you, you're, you do the safety, and then you're paid once you get there.

Jenn:

And that's basically your pay.

Jenn:

So Hickok takes a wagon train from Fort Laramie, which is so interesting.

Jenn:

That's the treaty of Fort Laramie that is adhering to these Indian lands.

Jenn:

So, this is the big fort of Wyoming, and this is still Wyoming territory,

Jenn:

and this is Dakota territory.

Jenn:

So, they're not even states, which again, they're not governed in that way.

Jenn:

So, he, uh, Hickok takes a wagon train from Fort Laramie to, uh, Wyoming.

Jenn:

Dead word.

Scott:

Now at this point in his life and career, he'd already

Scott:

been, he already has a reputation.

Scott:

If I remember correctly, he's been a marshal for a little while.

Scott:

So he already kind of has all this kind of notoriety.

Jenn:

So yes, James Butler Hickok, he's born May 27th, 1837.

Jenn:

Um, he's a folk hero of the old west, but mostly because he comes

Jenn:

up beside Buffalo Bill Cody.

Jenn:

So he comes up beside him.

Jenn:

So his stories are told with him.

Jenn:

Now, Cody can capitalize on those a little better than Hickok, but it doesn't

Jenn:

mean Hickok stories don't get told.

Jenn:

So yes.

Jenn:

uh, Hickok is, uh, he leaves his home at 18 years old, Illinois.

Jenn:

He, uh, becomes a lawman in Kansas, Abilene, Kansas.

Jenn:

That'll be important later.

Jenn:

In Nebraska, he becomes a scout for the Union Army, just like Buffalo Cody.

Jenn:

And he, um, and he meets like these kind of people who do

Jenn:

shows and stuff like that.

Jenn:

So he has met a woman who's part of the circus and he marries her in

Jenn:

Cheyenne and they're married in March.

Jenn:

Her name is Agnes Thatcher Lake and you show a picture of her in the video and

Jenn:

she's a 50 year old widow of the circus.

Jenn:

So they're running in the same kind of circle.

Scott:

And she was actually like a very famous, very well traveled,

Scott:

very In that in the circus kind of, you know, world, she was like, I

Scott:

was reading about her a little bit.

Scott:

She's actually very well known.

Jenn:

She's very well known.

Jenn:

And so she stays in Cheyenne.

Jenn:

So you can imagine they're getting married March of 1876.

Jenn:

He's going to Fort Laramie.

Jenn:

So Fort Laramie is right outside of Cheyenne.

Jenn:

And he's getting there by June.

Jenn:

And then by he takes the wagon train from Uh, June to July to Deadwood.

Jenn:

And so she, she stays behind and he wants to make his fortune because

Jenn:

he's heard about all this gold.

Jenn:

Of course.

Jenn:

And so he's like, I'm going to make it rich quickly.

Jenn:

And he's a gambler.

Jenn:

And he's a gambler.

Jenn:

So he joins Charlie Utter's wagon train.

Jenn:

And Charlie Utter, if you.

Jenn:

Know anything about Wild Boat Hickok?

Jenn:

It's the name on the tombstone.

Jenn:

And we'll talk more about that because Charlie, Charlie Utter is a fan of Hickok.

Jenn:

It's his wagon train and they all meet up in Fort Laramie and another person joins

Jenn:

the wagon train then to Calamity Jane.

Jenn:

So they take the train, the wagon train together.

Jenn:

So Calamity Jane didn't know Hickok.

Jenn:

Well, they met this one time.

Jenn:

They, they

Scott:

must have, I, I, the more I thought about it, like, and, and we talk about it

Scott:

later in the video, like her dying wish.

Scott:

Mm-hmm.

Scott:

was to be buried next by, next to Wild Bill.

Scott:

Mm-hmm.

Scott:

. And they, it must have been one of those things, and maybe this is just

Scott:

kind of the romantic side of, you know, Outlook that I have on, on stories

Scott:

like this sometimes, but they must have just kind of like connected, right?

Scott:

Just like birds of a feather, same, same spirit.

Scott:

They hit it off, you know, because for some reason throughout history, those

Scott:

two names have always gone together.

Scott:

And, and to your point, historically, they didn't spend a ton of time together.

Scott:

They didn't,

Jenn:

but You can imagine there probably are not a lot of women acting

Jenn:

like Calamity Jane at this time.

Jenn:

She's very much adhering to men gender norms.

Jenn:

She's wearing men clothing and she's succumbed to alcoholism.

Jenn:

So she's drinking every day, which Hickok is also an alcoholic.

Jenn:

So he's drinking every day.

Jenn:

So there's some shared hardship.

Jenn:

Sure.

Jenn:

That they have together on this wagon train.

Jenn:

Drinking buddy.

Jenn:

drinking buddy.

Jenn:

She's a good shot.

Jenn:

He's a good shot.

Jenn:

They can tell stories together.

Jenn:

They can laugh together.

Jenn:

So they probably connected.

Scott:

Well, and even like the more that I learned about them and you

Scott:

again, you mentioned it in the video, uh, and, and I'll link the video

Scott:

in the show notes for this podcast.

Scott:

But you talk about her, she's got kind of a big heart, right?

Scott:

When she, when she isn't drinking and when she is sober enough to,

Scott:

to do things, she is out there.

Scott:

They're helping.

Scott:

Yeah.

Scott:

And he kind of does the same thing, right?

Scott:

He's a lawman.

Scott:

He's a marshal.

Scott:

He's out there trying to enforce the law.

Scott:

So they both have that spirit about them.

Scott:

Yeah.

Scott:

Charity heart.

Scott:

They have that charity heart.

Scott:

Now I did read for him, his kind of habit, especially as

Scott:

a lawman was incredibly rough.

Scott:

He kind of sought out.

Scott:

The trouble, you know, and would go, you know, from zero

Scott:

to fighting very, very quickly.

Scott:

And that's just kind of how he did his business.

Scott:

And even when I was looking up, there's been various movies made about Wild

Scott:

Bill Hickok and Deadwood and different versions that there's a TV show.

Scott:

Sure.

Scott:

The, the couple versions that I saw, I think it was, is a relatively

Scott:

well known actor that did one of the movies or something like that.

Scott:

But he just, he, like somebody, somebody says something to him like off one time

Scott:

or he's in Deadwood or he's in some town and someone's not supposed to have

Scott:

guns and he finds out he has a gun.

Scott:

He doesn't even like talk to the guy.

Scott:

He just goes up and punches him in the face and drags him away.

Scott:

Right.

Scott:

So that was kind of his

Jenn:

reputation.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

It's very lawless.

Jenn:

Yes.

Jenn:

And so it is very much this, uh, violent, physical.

Jenn:

Time and you get all these men in Deadwood and it becomes like

Jenn:

you're governed by yourself, right?

Jenn:

Right,

Scott:

and and that's kind of why I think that's kind of why he had this mystique

Scott:

about him because he was a lawman He had that reputation and actually again when

Scott:

I was making the video I read that he had earned this reputation early as a marshal

Scott:

because he was I guess supposedly One of the first ones to kind of have this

Scott:

quick, quick draw shootout, you know, like standing in the middle of the street,

Scott:

just like get it done, like a quick draw.

Scott:

Like he was one of the first supposedly, um, to, to do

Scott:

that and to kind of have that.

Scott:

You know, established a, you know, sure.

Scott:

Around, around him and his, his reputation.

Jenn:

One more.

Jenn:

I gotta look pretty when I'm down.

Jenn:

I'm a dead, I'm a dead, I'm a dead man.

Jenn:

So he's in Deadwood.

Jenn:

We've established, he gets married in March of 1876, and Cheyenne

Jenn:

makes it to Laramie about June.

Jenn:

It takes the wagon train up to Deadward from Laramie, Wyoming

Jenn:

to Deadward, South Dakota.

Jenn:

And he gets there about July.

Jenn:

So again, not very long time because August 1st is when all these things

Jenn:

will start to happen for Hickok.

Jenn:

So it's August 1st, 1876, where he's at saloon 10.

Jenn:

Now In the video.

Jenn:

And if you visit Deadwood, this, there's a little discrepancy.

Jenn:

So the location of saloon 10.

Jenn:

is still there, but it's not saloon 10 anymore, but the actual location where

Jenn:

Hickok was playing cards is there.

Jenn:

Now, saloon 10 had burned at one point and the owners had moved the location across

Jenn:

the street and further down, but still kept a lot of the furniture and the chair.

Jenn:

And the the decorum from the decorations and stuff from

Jenn:

what the saloon looked like.

Jenn:

So you can go to the saloon 10, which is not the location and see the chair

Jenn:

where Hickok was murdered and you can see what the what What would it look like?

Jenn:

What the saloon would it look like?

Jenn:

And then you can go further down the street to the actual location.

Scott:

And I think the name of that place was like Wild Bill

Scott:

Bar or something like that.

Jenn:

Yes.

Jenn:

So that's the difference between the two.

Jenn:

But so what's happening is August 1st, he's playing poker in saloon 10.

Jenn:

Poker was his game.

Jenn:

And he's the seat opens up and a Jack McCall sits to play poker with him.

Jenn:

And during the session, McCall loses.

Jenn:

A lot, and Hickok encourages him to quit, quit now, try to go make some

Jenn:

money to pay us what you owe us.

Jenn:

And he gives him money for breakfast the next morning because he's

Jenn:

basically used all his money.

Jenn:

And people claim, or historians claim, that insulted McCall.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

So he was insulted by him giving him basically, you know, um, Charity money.

Jenn:

Charity money.

Jenn:

And so the next day.

Jenn:

Same location.

Jenn:

So August 2nd, Hickok walks into the same saloon to play poker and the only

Jenn:

seat open has its back to the door.

Jenn:

And Hickok being, being a lawman doesn't want to sit with his back to

Jenn:

the door, but he wants to play poker.

Jenn:

It's his game.

Jenn:

So he sits there.

Jenn:

He actually asks a couple of guys he's playing poker with if

Jenn:

they would change seats with him.

Jenn:

But if you know anything about poker, it's bad luck to change your seat.

Jenn:

So they refuse.

Jenn:

So he's playing and, um, That's when McCall will walk into the bar and shout

Jenn:

something at him and just shoot him point blank range right against the head.

Jenn:

And he kills him instantly.

Jenn:

And the bullet actually goes through Hickok's head into the

Jenn:

gentleman he's playing poker with.

Jenn:

Yeah, that's right.

Jenn:

Into his arm.

Jenn:

And that gentleman will keep the bullet in his arm for the rest of his life.

Jenn:

Holy cow.

Jenn:

And he's a, um, he's like a captain of a steamboat, of the paddle boats.

Jenn:

And he would walk into bars saying.

Jenn:

Uh, here comes the bullet that killed, uh, Bill Hickok.

Jenn:

Of

Scott:

course, yeah, if you're a ship captain of like a

Scott:

riverboat or something like that.

Scott:

You're like, here's my

Jenn:

story.

Jenn:

Yeah, here comes the bullet.

Jenn:

So, McCall knows, knows he's done something bad, right?

Jenn:

And, uh, and of course, the dead man's hand.

Jenn:

So, Hickok in his hand is holding aces and eights.

Jenn:

Black aces and eights.

Jenn:

And they don't know what the whole card is.

Jenn:

That's what the fifth card is.

Jenn:

And there's speculation.

Jenn:

You'll see some places have the nine of diamonds.

Jenn:

But that's no one really sure what the fifth card is, but that's the hand he has

Jenn:

when he's killed So it's called the dead man's hand and we show it in the video and

Jenn:

sometimes when you go to his grave people have left So McCall runs out of the saloon

Jenn:

and tries to jump on a horse and we talked about this that most horses if you're

Jenn:

Tying up your horse to go in somewhere.

Jenn:

You're gonna loosen the saddle Because you're not going to cinch a saddle

Jenn:

on a horse and for it to rest so when he jumps on the horse saddle It just

Jenn:

falls right off and then he runs down the street to the butcher shop and we

Jenn:

we show that there's a and he Hides in the cooler basically there and they

Jenn:

find him They pull him out of there and they actually do the trial in the

Jenn:

same place where Hickok is Yeah, I

Scott:

was kind of surprised with such a lawless place, you know, I assume there

Scott:

must have been other lawmen, you know, in the, in the city or something like that.

Scott:

He probably wasn't, he probably wasn't the only one.

Scott:

You don't really

Jenn:

know.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Well, they don't really, I mean, it's an informal minors jury.

Jenn:

They get the minors, the guys who are there.

Jenn:

to stand a jury.

Jenn:

So, and it can't really be a trial because it's not really a territory.

Jenn:

Yes, it's lawless.

Jenn:

It's lawless.

Jenn:

It's, it's, um, it's Indian land.

Jenn:

It's a reservation.

Jenn:

It's not, it belongs to the American Indian.

Jenn:

So it's not, it can't be governed basically.

Jenn:

So you can't really hold a trial, but they do.

Jenn:

And McCall claims that When Hickok was a Marshall in Abilene, Kansas Again, I

Jenn:

told you that name would come up that Hickok killed his brother Now there is

Jenn:

a record of a McCall being killed in Abilene, Kansas by a lawman Oh, really?

Jenn:

They don't claim that it's Hickok.

Jenn:

It just says a lawman that the records aren't that clear But there is a McCall

Jenn:

that is killed earlier by a lawman.

Jenn:

And there's not even clear if that's his brother, but the name matches up.

Jenn:

Now, now they, they didn't know this.

Jenn:

The minors hear this story and the minors are very much, again, this

Jenn:

lawlessness of the West where you govern yourself and you're very much

Jenn:

eye for an eye type of mentality.

Jenn:

So they let him off, right?

Jenn:

You think about someone who killed your brother, they deserve to

Jenn:

to whatever they get from you.

Jenn:

And so the miners are like, Oh yeah, you're totally validated and what you did.

Jenn:

You're free to go.

Jenn:

But McCall gets out of town relatively quickly because people

Jenn:

are upset because people like Hickok, including Charlie, Charlie utter.

Jenn:

And Charlie utter is the gentleman who they'll bury Hickok the very next day.

Jenn:

He's not buried at Fort at Mount Moriah cemetery where we visited his grave today.

Jenn:

He's He's buried at a closer cemetery to the location of Main Street, but

Jenn:

as the city grows, they move them.

Jenn:

They move the cemetery about three years later in 1879 and on the day of his death.

Jenn:

But Charlie utter will cut that original tombstone and it'll say,

Jenn:

it says almost looks like clutter.

Jenn:

CH.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Shutter.

Jenn:

Um, but.

Jenn:

Um, he also invites everyone back to his camp for the funeral.

Jenn:

And it's almost like everybody from the town shows up.

Jenn:

Because again, Wagon Train, he has a camp that he's established.

Jenn:

And so everyone comes there and he considered him a friend.

Jenn:

And so he's the one who will pay for the funeral and then pay for the tombstone.

Jenn:

And McCall gets out of the area where he ends up back around Fort Laramie.

Jenn:

And he's running his mouth that he killed a U.

Jenn:

S.

Jenn:

Marshal.

Jenn:

He killed Bill Hickok and An actual U.

Jenn:

S.

Jenn:

Marshal is listening to him.

Jenn:

And again, you have this loyalty of even with the lawlessness, you have this

Jenn:

loyalty between marshals that we know how difficult this job is for us to do.

Jenn:

And here you are running around that you killed one of the most famous U.

Jenn:

S.

Jenn:

Marshals.

Jenn:

So he takes them to Dakota territory, a place that's actually

Jenn:

run by the federal government.

Jenn:

It's Yankton, Dakota territory, and he puts them on trial.

Jenn:

So it doesn't really.

Jenn:

Hit that double jeopardy since the first trial wasn't an actual trial and

Jenn:

a Hickok's brother comes to town to hear the testimony and he's found guilty

Jenn:

and he's hanged the very next day after he's found guilty on March 1st, 1877.

Scott:

It's so funny to me that, you know, if you.

Scott:

You almost couldn't script a story like this, right?

Scott:

And for us, you know, in the American culture, you know, this, this story is

Scott:

part of kind of that wild west Story that we learned growing up and everything like

Scott:

that and you you almost again You couldn't script a more predictable bad guy, right?

Scott:

someone who just kind of gets away with murder literally and then is

Scott:

off running his mouth like they write that into movies all the time Right.

Scott:

And they do that because people actually do that.

Scott:

And then, you know, this guy wasn't the

Jenn:

most intelligent person.

Jenn:

Obviously, if he would have just kept his mouth shut, he probably could have lived

Jenn:

a very long life and gotten away with it.

Jenn:

But he obviously was not the smart guy, especially to be

Jenn:

losing at poker so, um, so badly.

Jenn:

We visit Hickock's grave.

Jenn:

Right beside him is Calamity Jane.

Jenn:

She'll die in 1903.

Jenn:

Her dying wish is to be buried next to Wild Bill, because I think they had this

Jenn:

close friendship and kinship, and, um, she really thinks fondly of Deadwood.

Jenn:

And then right about two graves over from her is a very famous,

Jenn:

uh, madam named Dora Dufresne.

Jenn:

And Dora Dufresne runs the most profitable brothel in Deadwood.

Scott:

It is, I think I saw, this was one thing that...

Scott:

I didn't notice the first couple times when I was editing the video

Scott:

and then finally I was looking at some of the signs right then and

Scott:

they have in Deadwood on that Main Street where you're kind of walking

Scott:

up and down doing most of the filming.

Scott:

They have signs and basically they're not quite historical markers, but

Scott:

they're like the classic kind of wooden hanging sign hanging from outside.

Scott:

historic locations.

Scott:

So one, one wooden sign says this is the actual location where Wild Bill Hickok

Scott:

was was killed on August 2nd, 1876.

Scott:

You know, here's the spot where Jack McCall was captured.

Scott:

And then they actually have another sign talking about one of the brothels.

Scott:

Yes.

Scott:

And but it said on there that it wasn't closed by.

Scott:

It wasn't closed until 1980 by the FBI.

Scott:

1980.

Scott:

That just I was so Caught off guard by that, that that

Scott:

was around doing their thing.

Jenn:

Well, I feel like, so again, we talk about all these men coming into town

Jenn:

and these women come to service the men.

Jenn:

And if the men are the ones who are.

Jenn:

the law, but they're also partaking of a brothel, then they're going to turn

Jenn:

a blind eye to it for a very long time.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

I,

Scott:

I just, there was just a funny aside that just really surprised me.

Scott:

And I don't think most people would notice it if they're watching the video.

Scott:

But if you look in the video, you can see that it was, it

Scott:

just says, closed 80, right?

Scott:

By the FBI.

Scott:

Um, which was, Just, I

Jenn:

thought it was hilarious.

Jenn:

Well, Dufresne is also credited with the term cat house.

Jenn:

Oh really?

Jenn:

So she had a bunch of cats brought in on a wagon train because the women who

Jenn:

worked in her brothel were getting scared of the rats and they were getting very

Jenn:

upset and so they wouldn't do their job.

Jenn:

And so she brought in cats to get the rats.

Jenn:

And so the men knew the cat house.

Jenn:

They wanted to go visit the cat house that had like 12, 15 cats there who

Jenn:

were taking care of all the rats.

Jenn:

And that's where you get the term cat house.

Jenn:

Yeah,

Scott:

I do.

Scott:

I don't think I knew that.

Scott:

I don't think I had that in the video either.

Scott:

So it's a little podcast special for our listeners.

Scott:

And it makes sense.

Scott:

Yeah.

Jenn:

So

Jenn:

if you're wondering more about Deadwood, in 1877, you know, the U.

Jenn:

S.

Jenn:

government tries to like, uh, what can we do to kind of capitalize on

Jenn:

this gold that's being found here?

Jenn:

And they kind of modify the treaty of Fort Laramie.

Jenn:

And that the Lakotas never adhere to it.

Jenn:

And even today, they brought a trial against the US government in 18, in 1980.

Jenn:

And they cited the original treaty saying that this is our land, and you took it.

Jenn:

And so the US government tried to pay them a billion dollars for it.

Jenn:

And the Lakotas won't take it because they want the land.

Jenn:

That money sits in a savings account today for the Lakota people, which they

Jenn:

refuse to touch it because that land belongs to them and they want the land.

Jenn:

Wow.

Jenn:

And now so many people live there, like we even visited there.

Jenn:

And it is part of, you know, it's adhered to by a

Scott:

state.

Scott:

Well, and if, and if you're listening, right, so the Black Hills area.

Scott:

Right.

Scott:

If you're, if you're not familiar with the South Dakota area, and I wasn't

Scott:

really until we spent some time, we spent a few days there with, you know, for a

Scott:

little, we had a little family reunion, but that's right near Mount Rushmore.

Scott:

That's crazy horse, which we'll talk about in future, in upcoming episodes.

Scott:

So there's a whole lot in that area and it's gorgeous.

Scott:

It's a beautiful area.

Scott:

It's,

Jenn:

it's absolutely beautiful.

Jenn:

And you can see why they want the land.

Jenn:

And I.

Jenn:

I.

Jenn:

Think there could be some compromise being that the land belongs

Jenn:

because you can still visit.

Jenn:

Bighorn is on a Indian reservation, Badlands is on an Indian reservation

Jenn:

and they still use it, you know, for people to visit and they can still

Jenn:

make a profit off of still keeping this, you know, this land, um,

Jenn:

protected for their use of their tribe.

Jenn:

So I think there could be something you could adhere to, but, um, what happens

Jenn:

in 1879, and this is the big fire in.

Jenn:

Deadwood.

Jenn:

And most people have not made huge fortunes.

Jenn:

They've been there for like four years by then.

Jenn:

And so most people leave.

Jenn:

And the people who stay are people who are established in the town.

Jenn:

And it has, even today, there's a couple thousand people who live there.

Jenn:

And, um, and it's still, I think it's the tourism is really what

Jenn:

drives the town, but it never is going to hit that big heyday.

Jenn:

that it had there in the 1870s.

Jenn:

But it was a very cool place to visit.

Jenn:

And, uh, Hickok is the story there, if you go there.

Jenn:

So you definitely want to go down Main Street.

Jenn:

It's the historic Main Street.

Jenn:

And you definitely want to go to Mount Moriah Cemetery.

Scott:

Yeah, and they have, they have tour buses that'll take you up to the cemetery

Scott:

because it's up a very steep hill.

Scott:

That is not one you're going to walk from Main Street up to the cemetery.

Jenn:

They'll try to tell you you can walk.

Jenn:

Don't

Scott:

do it.

Scott:

Don't do it.

Scott:

I mean, it's steep even sitting in a car.

Scott:

Um, so, but yeah, it was an absolute blast.

Scott:

It's a gorgeous area.

Scott:

It really did get, for me, kind of to that inner child, you know, just kind

Scott:

of little bit of excitement there.

Scott:

And we had our whole family with us.

Scott:

We had our family, they were kind of watching us film because, you

Scott:

know, that was kind of just a topic.

Scott:

So they were enjoying that.

Scott:

And as we look back at, you know, while Bill Hickok's life has been romanticized

Scott:

and immortalized in various books, Movies, legends, and even this podcast,

Scott:

he remains an enduring symbol of the American Wild West and is remembered

Scott:

for his remarkable marksmanship, daring adventures, and a tragic end

Scott:

that befell many legendary figures.

Scott:

of the era.

Scott:

So thank you so much for listening to the Talk With History podcast.

Scott:

Please reach out to us over at talkwithhistory.

Scott:

com.

Scott:

More importantly, if you know someone else that might enjoy

Scott:

this, share this with them.

Scott:

If they're a Wild West fan, if they're, they're a cowboy fan,

Scott:

they're going to love this podcast.

Scott:

We have another podcast similar to this, where we talk about Buffalo Bill Cody.

Scott:

We have more like this coming up.

Scott:

We're going to be talking about Little Bighorn.

Scott:

So if you're listening to this in the future.

Scott:

We'll look those episodes up, because I'm sure you'll enjoy them.

Scott:

We rely on you, our community, to grow, and we appreciate, we

Scott:

appreciate you all every day.

Scott:

We'll talk to you next time.

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About the Podcast

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Talk With History
A Historian and Navy Veteran talk about traveling to historic locations

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About your hosts

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Scott B

Host of the Talk With History podcast, Producer over at Walk with History on YouTube, Editor of HistoryNewsletter.com
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Jennifer B

Former Naval Aviator turned Historian and a loyal Penn Stater. (WE ARE!) I earned my Masters in American History and graduate certificate in Museum Studies, from the University of Memphis.

The Talk with History podcast gives Scott and me a chance to go deeper into the details of our Walk with History YouTube videos and gives you a behind-the-scenes look at our history-inspired adventures.

Join us as we talk about these real-world historic locations and learn about the events that continue to impact you today!

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Thank you for the great podcasts and for sharing your passion! Love hearing about the locations you visit.